Saturday, May 28, 2011

Raising Witches?


Evil and witchcraft is all around us.  It is in our movies, television shows, and even dumbed down and made to look innocent, thrown into the Disney channel.

My eyes have been opened (once again) this week to the spiritual battle that is around us.

More than ever, we need to stand up as Christian families to raise our sons and daughters to love and serve the Lord.

There is a great host of women around us that are professing witches.  They are raising their children to be witches too.  They are teaching them to love darkness, rather than light.

Who is the Light?  Jesus!  John 14:6 says that He is the way, the truth and the life and no man cometh unto the Father but by Him.

Not through Satan.

Not through evil works of darkness.

Not through witchcraft.

Yes, one is free to have "faith" in darkness, but it is NOT THE TRUTH.

God is a mighty God.  He is more powerful (for Light defeats the darkness) and He already has won the battle on the cross of Calvary!



1 Thes. 5:22
King James Version:
"Abstain from all appearance of evil."
Amplified version: 
"Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be."
Message version:
"On the other hand, don't be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what's good. Throw out anything tainted with evil."

Ephesians 6:12
King James version:  "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Amplifed version: "For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere."


1 Peter 5:8:King James version: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"
Amplifed version:  "Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [[a]in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour."
NLT version:  "Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour."

For me (I cannot judge other's motives) that is why I've dropped out of this contest.  I'm "throwing out that which is tainted with evil."-1 Thes. 5:22

I desire to be associated with the truth of Christianity rather than with what Circle Of Moms defines as "faith":


"Faith is all around us, and it comes in many different forms"

@ Heather wrote in the comments (and I thought this was a great reminder):

"Speak His blessings over these precious women who are searching for something to fill the God-shaped hole in their hearts. They are women and moms on the same journey as all of us but have been caught up in the enemy's schemes. Pray for each one by name and don't fear."

THANK YOU HEATHER FOR SPEAKING GOD'S PERFECT PEACE AND LOVE!

Photobucket

58 comments :

  1. Traci. I get so conflicted too about the witches and sorcerers on TV and movies. I am a strong Christian but admit I love the Harry Potter series and yes watched The Sorcerer's Stone and all the Disney movies with the witches as a child. I did not even realize that that contest had anything but Christian blogs involved. I give you great credit for standing up for your faith and your principles and for bowing out gracefully. Those of us that know you already know you are a top
    Faith Blogging mom.....

    ReplyDelete
  2. Great post! I just finished voting over at the Circle of Moms top 25 faith blogs was just SHOCKED at all the witchcraft and pagan blogs. There is a spiritual battle being waged all around us. This was a true reminder of what is going on right in front if us! May God bless you, your family and use this blog for His glory.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I, too, was shocked to see more than a few witch/pagan moms out there competing with Christian moms for a faith-based blog contest. Blew my socks off! Gave me shivers too. There are other contests out there, Traci!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Amen Tracy!! I was going through that Circle of Moms yesterday and I couldn't believe some of the blogs. It scares me.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I am stunned that these people who practice witchcraft put themselves in a 'faith' competition. This really opened my eyes. I guess they do have faith, but they're believing in the wrong god. Wow...

    ReplyDelete
  6. Greater is He that is in YOU than he that is in the world. When God's Spirit is living inside of you, you need not fear anything. Speak His blessings over these precious women who are searching for something to fill the God-shaped hole in their hearts. They are women and moms on the same journey as all of us but have been caught up in the enemy's schemes. Pray for each one by name and don't fear. Our blogs, no matter where they fall in the line-up, will speak life and hope to all who read them. Persevere, Sisters!
    Be a light to the weary moms who nurse babies in the wee hours and search the web for some bit of advice. If we all back out, what will they find when they're looking for spiritual food?

    ReplyDelete
  7. @ Heather! Amen, I have nothing to fear. Great is He that is in me... (and us).

    You are so right that we should pray over these women... we are al on a journey and God loves each one of us SPECIAL!

    Love,
    Traci @ Ordinary Inspirations

    ReplyDelete
  8. Oh my.

    Thanks for opening up my eyes to this!

    ReplyDelete
  9. I have to say that the whole interfaith contest makes me uneasy, not the contest feels more like "Let my faith be the winner" or a "religious war" rather then what i thing was intended to be.

    But on a side note, I also be conflicted with the whole contest thing.. I couldn't in clear conscience vote, why?

    because it was a popularity contest IMO, and I always feel bad for the less popular, the one who are left behind. I can choose a favorite between our children I love them all, they are all unique but I love them... Same with you all my lovely blogger friends, why would I have to choose who I love best... I know that I could vote for more then 1 but still, it made me uncomfortable.

    I love when blogger feature other blogger on their blog, how they share the love for one another that way, bonus for us to be able to meet another great blogger that we haven't meet before!

    Question, was it made clear in the contest that other faith then Christianity where going to be part in the contest out front???? Just saying maybe some on the nastiness that as been going on in the last few days could have been prevented if the fine print had been read before? Well I mean if it was clear that it was a contest between religion and faith would it made sense not to enter it in the first place?

    Sorry to be so blunt, but maybe it would be something to keep in mind before entering any contest or the sort in the future.

    Know that I love you, your blog, keep up the good work.

    In Christ
    Renee

    Because I have that there was going to be people who will not have as many vote as other, some who will be very neglected, I always feel bed for

    ReplyDelete
  10. Traci, I am with you on this one! I would have done the same thing. Funny thing is many of the blogs I read have asked for votes and for some reason I just wasn't comfortable voting. Now I know why. In good conscience I couldn't be part of it either. Thanks for sharing this.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Sorry about the last paragraph, it was not intended to be part of the comment!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  12. @ Renee, you are very right. This was a great life lesson for me...

    There was no "fine print" giving the details on their definition of faith.

    I will be very cautious next time before entering such a contest (if I even do).

    Love,
    Traci @ Ordinary Inspirations

    ReplyDelete
  13. Good for you! I was just going through our little collection of DVD's this week and was amazed at the amount of witchcraft and sorcery and such things that we have in our home. We don't let our kids watch them, but it's bad enough that we do, or did. I won't be watching them again and plan to have a talk with hubby tonight about what we have in our house. Unfortunately he is not of the same thinking, so please pray that God will have His perfect will in our home, in all things!! Blessings, Deb

    ReplyDelete
  14. I was at first uneasy about this too, then I went to one of the blogs and saw that she had seen all that was written about them. She kindly wrote about what had happened. I then knew that God is trying to reach them, but He can't do it with Christians turning their back on them. I absolutely agree that His truth is the only truth, but I also realize that He gave us all a choice and respects the choice we make, although it could be the wrong one. Like Heather said, they need prayer and encouragement. God can do mighty things through this!

    ReplyDelete
  15. I know God will honor your decision to take a stand!!! Thank you for opening MY EYES to the circle of moms group ... While I also pray for these women raising children in darkness of paganism and "witchcraft" without realizing how very real Satan is, I can't associate either. What a scarey, deceitful world we live in. May God keep us standing strong for RIGHTEOUSNESS!

    ReplyDelete
  16. There are many of my favorite blogs in that contest. I wasn't aware until yesterday that there were so many blogs that were promoting another faith. It really shocked me. I'm glad you're taking a stand.

    My older two children never even watched the Disney movies that involved witchcraft when they were younger. That meant they didn't watch a lot of movies! I've been more lax with my youngest but we always have a conversation before and after.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Great message, and very true! Television is probably the #1 influence in the culture of this generation..and with that being said, there's little hope for this world in that aspect!

    ReplyDelete
  18. God will bless your faithfulness to Him! I voted for you, but the page I was on showed only your blog and no others. Shame on me for not checking it out thoroughly and thanks to you for helping me to remain more alert!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous3:27 PM

    As a former witch and astrologer who was saved by the blood of Christ and is now a child of God, I say heartily-AMEN!

    ReplyDelete
  20. I stand behind your choice while at the same time respecting those Christians who have chosen to stay. I know they have convictions as well. But what I love most about your post is the scriptures that you share! Thank you!!

    I willfully and purposefully withdrew my blog from the site. Two days later I received an official letter of termination because of my blog post stating my personal views on witchcraft and my concerns with the site. (Thing is I didn't enter my site in the first place.)

    So for those who have suggested that removing my site was a bad decision, because I need to shine my light in this dark world. I say that I'd prefer to shine my light where there is freedom of speech. I won't be governed by a site by which I have to suppress my ideas or hold my tongue on issues that scripture clearly points out as wrong.

    I am governed by Jesus Christ--no one else.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I too felt very uneasy about the Circle Of Moms "contest" and also withdrew. I am stunned as a mom of two little girls how much witchcraft, etc is in programming for even young children. Although, I have let my girls watch Disney movies, etc there are many that I have not and will not let them watch. Thank you for your beautiful post and wonderful blog! Be blessed always!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Shocked how many witchcraft blogs were on there and that they were getting the most votes! I do believe many Christian bloggers don't feel comfortable with contests like this and therefore aren't voting.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Traci, I understand your reasoning and I think that Darlene sums it up quite nicely. Its a pity things turned so ugly so fast. when you have to stand up for what is right you always seem to be judging others. I've perused some of the comments to get a feel for what's going on. They think you're 'hating' on them etc. They're saying we're intolerant and not at all what Christ is about.. even some other Christians are saying the same. I asked myself, "What would Jesus do?" I know He would have been loving and kind towards them but He would also not leave them in their darkness but present them with the truth and the light. I even saw a , married, lesbian woman, who is an ordained minister and she says that she follows Jesus her way. To put things into perspective.. its just a contest and while it would be great to reach over 6 million women, perhaps this is not the right forum.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I came over to your blog b/c I knew you'd asked me to vote and were up there in votes before it became this crazy us vs. them pagan/heathen vs. christian...and then i didn't see you so I figured you had dropped out.

    I still have mine up and had set up an event on facebook for people to vote...I got in too late this year, but am thankful for the chance to enter.

    These days are very hard and the thing that I like the least about this whole deal is that we, as believers, can so easily be characterized (a caricature really) as simply pagan-haters. This is not where I want to be in all of this...when I put up a post to vote for 'Women Living Well' b/c the top pagan blog had become #1 and it went into my fb feed and angered a cousin. I was taken aback at first, but knew she's really angry right now...her mom is dying (early 50's) from Huntington's and there is a 50% chance she will too...this is her larger story as each of these women represents (like Heather said)

    I really respect your decision and am 'proud' of you...and just hope believers can love on and pray over these women and so many...can you imagine not realizing the evil, you are deceived, and encountering a truly malevolent spirit without the name of Jesus?!...I shudder at the thought. His is the only Name to which these spirits bow...that's the compassion-filling part for me...

    ok, sorry for so long a comment...best to you!!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Traci -
    Courageous decision. I linked over there and was a bit shocked, too. But, from studying history, I know that witchcraft and sorcery has been operating in this country for a long time. It's a bit scary, except, as Hearther so ably stated, "Greater is He that is in YOU than he that is in the world. When God's Spirit is living inside of you, you need not fear anything." Good post. wb

    ReplyDelete
  26. Thank you so much for this information. I too see evil all around, and strive, along side my husband, to raise our children to walk in the light, loving and glorifying God forever! I am encouraged by the words of scripture breathed by our Lord...

    ReplyDelete
  27. This is such a wonderful reminder of just how far our society has drifted away from God and godly things. I teach high school, and it saddens me to see how many young girls and boys and so easily sucked in to the rebellious "dark" side. Thankfully there is a group of kids who meet at lunchtime, on their own, and pray for the school and all the students.

    We are living in difficult times, and always need to pray that the TRUTH be revealed to all people.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I was wondering what happened as I searched for your blog to vote again. Good of you to stand by your convictions, but most importantly, stand up for the true Truth!

    smooches,
    Larie

    ReplyDelete
  29. Traci I stand by hind you as well girl. I keep hearing the same thing through the post, that all cant believe all the witch/pagan blogs on the list. They have rallied together to insure that there are NO Christian sites in the top 25. I ask as sisters of Christ that we all rally together and vote for all the Christian Blogs. We can rally together and make a shine for Jesus! Thank you everyone and Traci for your words! love ya

    ReplyDelete
  30. I hadn't heard of Circle of Moms until another of my bloggy friends posted about voting. When she withdrew, I investigated and I, too, was saddened by the dark 'faith' blogs. To complicate matters, one of the pagans/witches emailed me directly to berate my friend's choice to withdrawal. I simply don't understand all the hate. I pray for everyone in this situation. I applaud your stand. While doing my bible study this morning, I found Titus 3 to be helpful. (I posted on my other blog readingwithlarri.blogspot.com).

    Thanks for sharing your heart. You are an encouragement to others. Happy Monday! :o)

    ReplyDelete
  31. Give me a break. What happen to "thou shalt not judge"? You are oh so righteous. innocent and good huh? Yea right. I say look into your own heart and soul and see where the "evil" really sleeps.

    ReplyDelete
  32. My faith is certainly not "dark", "satanic" or "evil". It is simply different than yours.

    What I am saddened by is all of the intolerance, the lack of love between faiths, and the judgements coming from those who proclaim to be Christians. Where I live, I, as a legally ordained minister, come together in an interfaith counsel with those of all faiths, but mostly Christians.

    Their talk of how Jesus loves and encourages them to love everyone inspires me greatly. Posts such as this is one of the reasons I would never return to Christianity - the lack of love for those who are not just like you.

    I hope you will take the time to see how I responded to posts who've mocked not only my religious choices, but me personally, my husband (who is a Christian) and my children.
    http://www.confessionsofapagansoccermom.com/2011/05/this-is-going-to-be-long-one-folks.html

    By simply having someone *else* nominate my blog in the faith category, I had my entire family opened up to rudeness, hatefulness and mockery by people who claim to have a *better* faith.

    Thank goodness a few Christian bloggers came forward to support me and fellow Pagan bloggers and to show us the true, kind face of the Christian religion.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Dear ImaGarcia:

    I'm not judging... I just believe what the Bible says about witchcraft... I don't believe I'm righteousness... any good in me comes from Jesus. I have plenty of sins and faults and it is only by the Blood of Jesus that I am cleansed. As I have said, I do not hate these women... I Love them. I just don't agree with the worship of Satan... which is Anti-Christ.


    I hope you know I love everyone... I just can't stand side by side with everyone.

    Love,
    Traci

    ReplyDelete
  34. Hi Mrs B,

    I appreciate you stopping by.

    1st Question:

    Maybe I'm confused (which I may be) ... do witches not worship Satan? If not, who do you worship?

    It is not a matter of intolerance... it's just a matter of standing by what I believe the Bible says... anyone that serves anyone but Jesus Christ (John 14:6) can not come to the Father.

    I too had to realize that. I do not believe I am any better than you. Any good that comes from me is because of Jesus Christ.

    I do love you... I just can't stand side by side in what you believe. Please know that I love you!

    I don't see anything unloving in this post... that was not my intention. I'm sorry if it made you feel that way.

    I don't intend to mock you... so I won't be visiting the post you requested. I love you (again I don't think I'm more self righteous) but simply stand by what the Word of God said.

    Leaving the Circle of Mom's group was mainly a personal choice and more to do with what Circle of Mom's def. of "faith" was ... not a personal attack on the witches.

    I'm praying for you. Again, I love you.


    Love , Traci

    ReplyDelete
  35. Hi Mrs B,

    I appreciate you stopping by.

    1st Question:

    Maybe I'm confused (which I may be) ... do witches not worship Satan? If not, who do you worship?

    It is not a matter of intolerance... it's just a matter of standing by what I believe the Bible says... anyone that serves anyone but Jesus Christ (John 14:6) can not come to the Father.

    I too had to realize that. I do not believe I am any better than you. Any good that comes from me is because of Jesus Christ.

    I do love you... I just can't stand side by side in what you believe. Please know that I love you!

    I don't see anything unloving in this post... that was not my intention. I'm sorry if it made you feel that way.

    I don't intend to mock you... so I won't be visiting the post you requested. I love you (again I don't think I'm more self righteous) but simply stand by what the Word of God said.

    Leaving the Circle of Mom's group was mainly a personal choice and more to do with what Circle of Mom's def. of "faith" was ... not a personal attack on the witches.

    I'm praying for you. Again, I love you.


    Love , Traci

    ReplyDelete
  36. Faith is meaningless unless the source in which you put your faith is sound. Putting your faith in THE LORD and savior Jesus Christ is never wrong. Jesus said in John 14:6 that HE is THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE and that no one may come to the Father but through Him. Unfortunatly the Devil also jelously longs for the worship the Father recieves. He is subtle, crafty and always at work in our world tricking and lying to gain that worship. The truth is, that there really is only 2 faiths in the world...Faith in the Triune Godhead of our Father God, the Son Jesus and the Holy spirit OR in God's enemy Satan. Anything else but faith in THE LORD God in this world is masquerading as innocent faith...but is really faith grounded in lies, deciept of the devil and darkness. Satan is the father of lies. So each one of us should hold our faith up to the light of God's word and examine it's foundation to truly discover for ourselves WHAT our "faith" is truly grounded on!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hello Traci,

    I am writing to you because of the blog post you wrote concerning the CoM top 25 faith blogs involving Witches/Pagans and the subsequent comment string on that post. Specifically, I am writing to try and help answer your question about whom Witches worship if it isn't Satan. I am not doing this to pre-empt Mrs.B. I just know that she's a very busy woman and might take a while to get back to you. Also, as a practicing Witch and priestess myself, I feel I can offer you an answer to your question.

    The first thing that must be done in any discussion is to make a clear definition of terms so that we each know where the other person is coming from. Your definitions of "Witchcraft", "worship", and probably some other things are not the same as what actual practicing Witches use and this is the root of a lot of the problem.

    You don't necessarily have to agree with the definitions of these words as Witches use them, but in order to understand where I (we) are coming from, you must at least be aware of them and how they do or don't apply.

    The second thing that must be done is I need you to understand that Witchcraft is an autonomous practice. There is no single 'head' of all Witches and many of us are highly individualistic. We share certain core concepts and beliefs, but how those beliefs are put into practice vary from person to person, Witch to Witch. I will give you my answers and explanations which are pretty indicative of the Pagan/Witch community in general, but if you talk to ten different Witches, you will get eleven different answers :) This is part of the strength and beauty and experience of our tradition.

    (cont.)

    ReplyDelete
  38. Witchcraft does not in any way, shape or form involve Satan. He is entirely a being of the Christian tradition (and Islam, but they have a slightly different spin on him and that's an entirely off-topic thing I'm not really qualified to discuss). Witchcraft is the craft of the Witch. The word Witch comes from the Anglo-Saxon word Wicca (pronounced Wich-ah originally and modernized as Wick-ah). A Wicca was the word for a male Witch. Wicce was the word for a female Witch and Wiccan is the plural form. This has changed a bit and now Wicca is used almost exclusively and Wiccan is used as an adjective to describe a person. A Witch is someone with a knowledge and deep respect for the natural world, herbalism, medicines, midwifery, the changing seasons and moon phases and their impact upon herding and agricultural lifestyles. If you are familiar at all with the concepts of Native American beliefs -- this is entirely similar. Native American beliefs are the shamanistic practices of the original people of the Americas. Witchcraft is the shamanism of Old Europe.

    I use the word Shamanism because that is also part of what Witches did and do. A Shaman's responsibility was to communicate with spirits of the land and animals, ancestral spirits, and so on for the good of their community. It was the shaman (witch) who went into trance and asked the spirits of the animals for permission to hunt them so the tribe might have food. It was the shaman (witch) who asked the spirits of plants for permission to use them in herbal medicines and magical preparations. This is why Witchcraft is connected with spirits -- it grew out of the belief that everything in the world is alive or has a spirit and we respect that, communicate with it, and seek balance with it. The idea of spirits of this sort being evil is an entirely foreign concept to us and not part of our beliefs at all.

    It is Christian tradition that teaches Satan is at the root of all this. Not ours. To put it as simply as possible, we have nothing to do with him. He's your bad guy and you're welcome to keep him. :)

    (cont.)

    ReplyDelete
  39. As for who we do worship -- I have to define 'worship' and say that in general, it's kind of a different thing than Christians do. Christians view themselves as supplicants and servants to God. He is far removed from Earth and Earth is a separate 'created' thing in Christianity. This is an entirely different viewpoint than the Witch.

    We do not see any separation at all between "Creator/Creatorix/Creators" and the "Creation". Just as two parents come together to create the new life of a child, the child is separate from them, but still linked by DNA forever to the parents, and their parents, and so on. There never is a total separation. Likewise, everything that exists in Creation is also part of That-Which-Created-It. The Earth is divine because it is the physical manifestation of the Source of All. People, plants, animals, sun, moon, stars, planets, etc. likewise all are part of this divine force because there is no separation. Everything is sacred. There is life in everything. Our gods and goddesses are manifestations of this divinity.

    Witches respect, revere, and honor our gods and goddesses but for the most part, it's a working partnership. We don't necessarily see ourselves as supplicants and servants. We are co-creators because we also possess divinity within ourselves. We call it 'life'. We pay homage to the powers of the universe in this way, celebrating life and honoring death as a means to rebirth. Witches don't believe in the Christian concept of Heaven or Hell just as we don't believe in the concept of sin. It's just not part of our belief system.

    I consider it similar to how Christians view other religious teachings. If a Muslim tried to tell you that your beliefs were wrong because they went against Islam or what the Koran says, would you accept it? Or would you continue to believe what you believe in as it has been revealed to you? Witches/Pagans are the same way. The bible and its teachings just don't apply to us the same way that the Koran, Bhavagad Gita, Prose Eddas/Poetic Eddas, or any other scriptural or holy writing of any other religion don't really apply to you.

    (cont.)

    ReplyDelete
  40. Within this, most Witches respect Jesus and see a lot of value in his teachings. The difference is that we don't believe he was the incarnate son of god as is taught by Christian tradition. If we did, we'd BE CHRISTIAN :) Most of us respect him and view him as a wise prophet and teacher, a healer, and generally great guy but we think the politics of the ancient world got in the way of that and turned his teachings into something else entirely.

    Also, we don't proselytize. Witches don't seek converts. We don't try to get people to become Witches. Anyone who does this sort of thing is immediately reprimanded by other Witches because it's not our way. It is for each person to come to understand the Divine in their own way. We will answer questions and teach those who seek to learn -- after they prove themselves -- but that is after much study and personal reflection. There is no 'great conspiracy' out there to make people practice Witchcraft. I turn away more students than I accept to be perfectly honest with you.

    If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer them for you. I appreciate that you sought information because the whole 'worshiping Satan' thing has been going on for centuries and it's never been true. People that worship Satan are Satanists (a specific branch of them too) and not Witches.

    May light and love always guide your path and may your God grant you many blessings!

    In Service,
    Juli

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous10:16 PM

    Women like Mrs. B make me very proud, indeed honored, to be a pagan.

    Kenneth

    ReplyDelete
  42. @ Juli,

    I really appreciate your explaination. Although I still do not agree in worshipping anything apart from Christ, I respect your viewpoint. Please understand that I still hold true to what the Bible says and stick to my convicitons.


    I really appreciate your loving approach to this. You are a blessing.


    Thanks,
    Traci @ Ordinary Inspiraitons

    ReplyDelete
  43. Yes...if you all get nothing else right, please realize that Satan only exists in the Abrahamic mythologies, and has nothing to do with paganism. While there may be some Satanists in the world (I've never met one), they would simply be another version of your religion, they don't belong to paganism.

    Sadly, what I constantly hear from Christians is fear. Fear of this, fear of that, etc etc. If you are so confident of your god, why do you all fear so much?

    In any event, good luck to you all. Try not to be so judgemental; we really don't care what you choose to believe in; try to give others the same consideration. :)

    ReplyDelete
  44. To Gitana:

    As Christians, we believe our God has given us direct instructions to stay away with witchcraft and sorcery. Granted, there are numerous definitions for "witchcraft"- one person's brand of paganism might be far different from a spiritualist or a voo doo priest. However, witch IS a term used in in the Satanist community. Here's a link from a Religious Tolerance website: http://www.religioustolerance.org/gl_w.htm#witch

    Christians believe Satan to be a true entity; why is it "sad" to fear him? The bible speaks of two kinds of fears: fear that is beneficial, and fear that is detrimental. Without getting into a long etymological discussion, guarding one's heart and home against evil is a form of "fear" that is beneficial.

    Christians who speak out against Wicca and Paganism are simply following their own biblical beliefs. Not to could very well be considered hypocritcal. (Some examples from the bible.)

    Deuteronomy 4: When you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars - all the heavenly array - do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshipping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."

    Lev. 19:31, "Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God."

    I'm amused that MrsB. and others are in an uproar because a bunch of rather meek and demure Christian bloggers propose to (GASP) pray for them.

    This is not persecution. The Jews were persecuted. Christians in Muslim countries are persecuted. Non-Arab Sudanese are being persecuted.

    Pagans in the States? Not so much.

    If I ventured on to some of these Pagan witch blogs and noted the snarky comments again "Right-wing Fundamentalist Christians," I might wrinkle my nose a bit, and maybe try to educate, but I would certainly not say Right-wing Fundamentalist Christians were being persecuted.

    As a politically moderate Christian hypocrite who reads Harry Potter, loves the film Bell, Book, and Candle, and practices Yoga, I am consistently impressed by how Traci stands by her convictions and lovingly does her best to follow God's word.

    If we lived our whole life trying not to offend anyone, life would not be very meaningful.

    Let's just remember that being offended is worlds different from being persecuted. When these bloggers start hurling stones (I mean, LITERAL stones), let's revisit this topic.

    ReplyDelete
  45. To Holly: I have had necklaces ripped from my throat. I have been grabbed, shoved, hit, and threatened with everything from beatings, to rape, to death (in more than an unpleasant way) and have been physically injured during these encounters. I have been verbally assaulted on the street, at work, and at school. I've had teenagers, old people, soccer moms, business men, youth groups (they were the rape people and their pastor was with them and said nothing), pastors, preachers, and almost any other kind of person you can think of. I've had people interrupt meals with my family at different restaurants, and once a group asked management to make me leave because I was wearing a Pagan t-shirt and had a Pagan holy symbol around my neck.(No the manger didn't ask us to leave) All of this was done by supposed "good Christians" and was done in day to day life. I've lost friends, boyfriends, and jobs in the past all because of my faith. My husband has a strained relationship with some of his family because he (a Christian) married a Pagan. I know Pagans who have been run out of business, actually beaten, their kids forced to move schools, lost housing, and jobs. So YES, Pagans in America are still being persecuted. I do not and will not hide my faith (and yes it's real a faith that is just as strong and valid as yours), but I don't run about yelling it from the roof tops either. I have many wonderful, loving Christian friends and family.

    Also the reason for the "uproar" is that a Christian Blogger attacked not her beliefs, but her parenting, her marriage, and her as a person. Attacking someone personally is crossing the line.

    I wish you the best and will pray for everyone and may both your God and my Gods and Goddesses bless us all.

    Thank you and Blessed Be,
    Rachel

    ReplyDelete
  46. Apparently, the woman you are speaking of is getting death threats, too. http://time-warp-wife.blogspot.com/2011/06/they-will-stop-at-nothing-to-silence-me.html

    (I don't agree with her use of the word persecuted either.)

    Your argument, though shocking, does not make a compelling argument for a whole group of peoples being "persecuted." Thankfully, we live in a country where you can take legal ramifications against people who physically assault you or illegally discriminate you based on your religion.

    The blogger "attacked" her marriage, her religion, her parenting, etc.? That might be condescending and rude, but it wasn't malicious. Having necklaces torn off your neck is one thing, having a blogger question your choice of religion is quite another.

    As someone who has had the horror of encountering the "rapey" people, (what are the statistics, 1 in 5 women are sexually accosted? Are womenin America persecuted?) I submit that no matter who you are or what you profess, evil can find you.

    I have no doubt your faith is as strong as mine. I don't believe it to be valid. Our two faiths are not complementary. (This doesn't imply there should be violent conflict. Good "Christians" or good "Pagans" who resort to threats and violence do a great disservice to their peers.) as a result, just I won't be wishy-washy and say "all roads lead to heaven." I just don't believe that.

    That being said, I respect your right to believe what you want to believe and to blog about what you want to blog about. And I have the right to disagree and even disapprove.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)

    ReplyDelete
  47. Holly,
    Women are not persecuted because 1 in 5 are sexually accosted, and I know that as actually being a victim myself (and it wasn't in any relation to religious issues).

    As for taking legal action against things like that obviously you've never tried it. A great number of police I've encountered while trying to get justice for these kinds of assaults feel that since I'm Pagan and the the people who have assaulted me are Christian that it was ok to down play it. The only time I've got any justice has been when a witness cared enough to hang around and file a report as well, and even then the suspect had usually taken off and they did little to find them, or they were let go with a warning. The people who have been run out of business usually have the cops either look the other way or sometimes even help run them out of business (and sometimes even town). I've tried to contacting lawyers but since the job I lost was a simple sales clerk job they all basically told me (in nice way) it wasn't worth it since I was the only victim and it was a lower position (not management or anything).
    Try to get justice for something a lot of people (even if it's just something that floats in the back of your head as bad even if it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone)don't agree with and come back and talk to me. In theory America is a place where you can get justice, but tell that to the gay teenager who is almost beaten to death for being gay, and since the start foot ball player was the one who did it they get off. Tell that to the people who have had to move because the Christian church makes living in the town they love so hostile it's impossible to stay. They fear for the safety of their children because they simply believe in a Goddess as well as a God.

    To true Christians who strive to be like Christ yes our faiths can live in peace. The people who call themselves "Christians", but pick and choose what words they live by in a "holy" book written by men (even if it was inspired by the Christian God, it was written by men and with all the different translations it hard to not at least admit some things in it have been corrupted by man) then no they can not live in peace. Also, many people aren't looking to go to the Christian Heaven so why would you believe "all roads lead to Heaven". They seek the Summerland, Valhalla, Kiko-rangi,Omeyocan ,Jannah,Tian, Elysium, Shangri-la, Utopia, afterworld, eternal rest,eternity, the Fairyland, the great unknown, the great beyond, The Happy Hunting Ground, hereafter, immortality, kingdom, kingdom come, life everlasting, life to come, next world, nirvana, paradise, promised land, or even simple reincarnation. I can go on with more places that people seek and believe are as just a good as your heaven. All good people will be rewarded. To believe otherwise is (to me) the worst thing wrong with the world today. (Continued in next post)

    ReplyDelete
  48. (Continued from last post) As for when Time Warp Wife (and I'll give her credit to having the most accurate title EVER) went after Confessions Of A Pagan Soccer Mom's marriage and parenting yes she did cross a line. It was a line put down by Circle of Moms to never go after anyone personally. It's ok to go after an idea, but not an individual. For that she was told she would be removed from the contest, but she pulled her entry before they could. If she didn't want to be listed with other religions first, she needs to look up the word "Faith" in a dictionary and see the definition the rest of the world uses, and second, she needs to read the fine print and make sure it says "Christian". If all she wanted was "Christian" then she shouldn't have been in the "Faith" blog contest in the first place. Even other (real) Christians called foul on her as they should have. Her struck first and people called it as they saw it. She was rude bully in this instance, and people rightfully took exception to it. We strive to teach our children to be respectful and most adults expect other adults to be respectful, and if they are not they deserve to be asked to answer for it in some way. Of course threats of violence are never right or called for.

    Now she does have the right to say anything she wants on her blog, but once made public you can expect people to disagree with what she wrights, and they have every right to do it as well. If she doesn't want the heat keep a diary instead, or at least stay off of secular blog sites. I'm not saying she should. It's just a suggestion if she doesn't want to deal with people when (to many) she sticks her foot in her mouth. I'll stand forever for her right to say it, and honestly, I'm a little glad she did. Had she not it's likely a Pagan blog wouldn't have won. She gave us the opportunity to share the loving nature of Paganism by helping put one of the blogs on top, and really put a whole heck of a lot of them in the top 25. She even helped put other blogs of other mainstream religions in the top 25 because many came out in support of us, and we supported them back. Many of us even supported the Christian blogs that came out in support of us. She has allowed for discussion between religions. That is the first step to tolerance. Even if she never sees the light of tolerance herself she has shown it to others by starting all this.

    May love and light be with you, and may my Gods and Goddesses and your God bless us all.

    ReplyDelete
  49. 1. Your first statement makes no sense.
    2. Just a word of caution: don't tell people what they obviously have or haven't done. You have no idea.
    3. All "good" people are rewarded? Since you're a stickler for lines- where's the line between "good" and "bad?"

    ReplyDelete
  50. Holly, what doesn't make since to you?
    I used examples from my own life or from a friend's lives to show how justice is hard to get. My best friend's brother was beaten up severly for being gay. 2 top football players bragged about doing it to people. They were brought in for questioning and let go. They were never charged even though people admitted they heard them say they did it, and that my friend's brother identified them. Friends of my husband owned a herb shop, and when they expanded the shop to carry books and other items relating to Paganism word in the small town spread that they were Pagan. The wife grew up in the town and loved it dearly. They recived hate mail, death threats, both their home and business were vandalized, and their children were bullied relentlessly at school. They took the mail and threats to the police and were told "we'll look into it". They took every piece of hate mail and threat they got after that straight to the police, but they never heard back on anything. Same with the vandalism. The police came out took a picture or two and said "We'll look into it", and left. They never heard back. People around town that they had been on first name basis with suddenly wouldn't speak to them. Most of their friends stopped calling. The pastor at the church called for all the parishioners to stop trading at the herb shop because they were "poisoning the community." Their daughter came home from a play date in hysterics because her friend's father had taken her and her friend to the church and there the pastor berated the child about how she was damned to hell, and she needed to confess that her mother slept with the devil, and she had sold her soul to him as well, and they quoted "Thou shall suffer a witch to live" at her from the bible, and asked her when her father started molesting her during their santanic rituals. When they went to the police both the pastor and the friend's father said the girl had asked to come to church and that they told her nothing of the sort, and only answered her questions. Her friend disagreeded with the account that her father and the pastor gave, but the police said they could find no evidence of any crime or wrong doing and that they would get in troubled if they didn't stop making "false police reports". They moved after that and thankfully found an excepting home where the local church goers are at least civil, they found a wonderful coven to join, and their business was thriving. So what do you not under stand about that?
    (continued in next post)

    ReplyDelete
  51. (continued from last post)
    Christ was tolerant of those who were different. He may not have approved, but he certainly didn't act like many "Christians" do today. To the good Christians I know (to one of whom I'm married) the Christian faith and Pagan faiths can live in peace. Still with me here? Was that too complicated to understand? Good, I'll go on.
    The Bible was written by men. Human beings put the words on the paper and even a few hundred years later decided what stories would or would not go into it. They may have been inspired by your God, but all humans are capable of mistakes. Still with me? Good. Now the Bible was written by more than one human being. It has been translated through more than one language to get to English. There are many versions of the Bible and they are all written in English, but they don't all say the exact same thing. Right? You can google it and check if you don't believe me. Now it stands to reason that with all the differences and that they all supposedly came from the same sources that mistakes have been made. If not there would be only 1 single English translation, Right? Since there is more than one there is at least some mistakes in most of them. Maybe the version you go by is the only one that escaped any mistakes. I believe that's about as likely as the moon really being made of cheese, but you are entitled to your belief and me to mine.
    You stated that you don't believe "all roads lead to Heaven". The next part of the paragraph in the previous posts list other places that people seek after death. It's their equivalent of your "Heaven". Since it is equal(they believe it is) to your heaven, but different from it, then obviously not all roads lead to just one of them. Still with me? Thus all roads don't lead to heavan. It's a given. That doesn't have anything to do with them attaining the afterlives they seek. The only thing that affects their desired afterlife is how they behave in this life. Many people don't want to go to the Christian Heaven because it's full of rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and serial killers, as well as all the good Christians, because according to Christianity if you accept Christ and repent you are forgiven and allowed into heaven. They repent and believe on their death beds and they are your afterlife neighbors.
    Also some people seek nothing more than reincarnation. To come back again to this earth and a human or other animal.

    First off I never said she obviously did or didn't do anything. As for me not having any idea, well yeah, I do. Based on reading everything that went down including comments put out by people from "Circle Of Moms" in other comment setions I'd say I gave a rather fair account about what happened, and that according to the contest she was in, she broke the rules. I also gave a list of suggestions that may help her stay out of a mess like this again. From reading her blogs and comments as well it does seem (and this time I'm saying) obvious she didn't enjoy the experience. She did a great good by allowing for talks between different religions and by helping to, inadvertently, spread awareness of other beautiful religions out there. She may have opened the eyes of someone unhappy with their current religion to a wonderful alternative.
    (continued in next post)

    ReplyDelete
  52. (Continued from last post)
    Now lastly I must say it's slightly frightening that one must define to you what a good person is, but since you asked I'll say what I truly believe a good person is. A good person is someone who lives and lets live, who tries to harm none, who tries not to lie, cheat, or steal. (I say tries because technically if you have said "nice to meet you", "it's been a pleasure", "Your hair looks nice", "this scrape/injury doesn't look to bad" or any nicety you really didn't mean then you have lied, and if you have ever looked up the answer to a cross word or had a huge piece of cake while on a diet then technically you have cheated, and if you have ever walked off with a cashier or tellers pen, snagged a piece of candy from your kid's stocking/Easter basket/trick or treat bag without telling them or asking them, or eaten a grape at the store to test if the bunch is sour, or done anything like that, then technically you have stolen). A good person wants to help their neighbors and community, loves their family and pets, and helps take of the Earth as well. A good person tries to be respectful, tries not to have a temper, and tries not to take their bad mood out on people who don't deserve it. They are responsible, loving, and always learning. They are tolerant of religions and lifestyles as long as it's not hurting someone else. They believe in justice, but not revenge, and try to practice that. They believe bad people who hurt others (including cruelty to animals), stealing, murder, rape, and do other immoral things get what they deserve and can't after a life time of baby rape believe they can simply "repent" and have to suffer no justice for their victims. A good person knows you *raise* children with firm but open love to be good people and not *train* them like dogs. Good people care and try to be nice and take care of others. Good people love their children truly unconditionally (even if they convert or are gay or bad at sports or want to wear pants). Good people know that the goal is to raise children to become intelligent, thoughtful, caring, open minded, self aware adults capable of independent thought. Good people have a good heart. They know the best thing in the world is love and compassion for their fellow human. They know that no one person is worth more or less than any other person for simply being the way they were born (no matter race, gender, sexual identity, or level of ability or disability). They know when to lead, when to follow, and that no human should yeild to any other human for an reason other than they want to (as long as they aren't hurting anyone). That's about the best I can give right now since it's late and I'm tired. Honestly if this doesn't fairly cover it for you though I'm not sure what will.

    (I'd like to apologize for any spelling errors in the previous set of posts. I forgot to run it though spell check)

    May both my Goddesses and Gods, and your God, bless us all.
    ~Merry Part and Blessed Be

    ReplyDelete
  53. Rachel:

    Why didn't you define what bad/evil was?

    2 Cor. 6:14

    Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

    John 14:6

    I am the way the truth and the life, NO MAN comes to the FATHER but by ME. (Jesus)

    You should watch the Truth Project... google it. It is really eye-opening.

    Love,
    Traci

    ReplyDelete
  54. First off, I meant to ask Holly what didn't make sense, not since. Sorry for that, and I should really do these when I'm more awake and on top of my game.
    Also, I need to add understanding. empathetic, and selfless to the qualities that make a good person.
    Traci, I didn't list what was bad for a couple of reasons. 1) It was almost 3 am so I needed to go to bed. 2) I didn't believe I was the only one who was in class the day opposites were taught in kindergarten, or that I was the only who watched Sesame Street and other educational programs that taught what opposites were. I even remember learning about opposites in a Sunday school class as a child. (I was raised Christian) Since the opposite of good is bad I figured any somewhat intelligent person would figure out that a bad person has all the opposite traits of the good one. Since you seem to want to know I'll tell you what I firmly believe a bad a person is. A bad person steals, lies, and cheats all in an effort to intentionally harm someone. A bad person murders, and rapes for the power they feel it gives them. A bad person beats their children and/or spouse. A bad person uses the excuse of religion to be rude, mean, and discriminatory to innocent people. A bad person not only tries to mentally and emotionally abuse people but takes great pleasure in it. A bad person is selfish and cares for no one and nothing but themselves and their own wants and needs. A bad person tries to use religion to deny others their basic rights because they don't like how someone acts (even though they are not hurting anyone). A bad person in snobbish, self absorbed, and believe they are superior to others for some reason. A bad person treats their own or their wife's birth canal like a clown car and cares not for what disabilities and/or development issues they are inflicting on their child because they don't believe in birth control but won't stop having sex so they keep having kids in their 40's and even 50's. A bad person forces underage girls to marry 40 year old men to be used as nothing but a brood mare because they say their"prophet" has ordered it to be so. A bad person would let their neighbor starve and the community turn to a ghetto as long as their quality of life isn't affected. A bad person cares nothing for justice and seeks revenge against any and all perceived attacks, whether real or imaginary, against them or one of the few things the care about. A bad person would rather be *right* than anything else. A bad person beats, abuses, and/or intimidates those weaker than them including animals. A bad person treats children like dogs, and loves them only if they meet certain standards. Any variation from that and the bad person turns their back on their children even if they are in great need of help. A bad person blames victims of crimes, and even believes they deserved what happened to them, for some reason, including not being a good enough believer in a religion. A bad person is dangerously closed minded. A bad person does whatever they want with no care for how it will affect others. Now not all people who have just a few of these traits are bad, but if they have a fair number of them and do not try and improve themselves then they are bad people.

    Now I don't believe in the concept of evil that the Christian religion teaches. I don't believe in the Christian Mythology either, but I will list some people whom I would consider evil in the closest definition to the Christian view. Hitler, Osama Bin Laden, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, Josef Mengele, Pol Pot, Idi Amin Dada, Adolph Eichmann, Mao Tse-tung, Heinrich Himmler, Pope Innocent III, Pope Innocent VIII, Heinrich Kramer, Jacob Sprenger, President Truman (for dropping the second bomb), King Leopold II of Belgium, Fransico Pizarro, Hernan Cortes, Jeffery Dahmer, Theonests Bagosora, Ante Pavelic, Ratko Mladic, and I can keep going if you would like.

    Continued in next post

    ReplyDelete
  55. Now I'll list people who I believe are really good and closest to your definition of holy since again that's more a part of the Christian Mythology: Buddha, Baha'u'llah, Dalai Lama, Jesus Christ (As a man only for preaching love, and am dubious because of all the atrocities done in his name, but I can't really blame him for that), Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, Jr., Gandhi, Mohammed (even though he wasn't a great person to begin with), John Locke, Leo Tolstoy,Confucious, Oscar Schindler, JFK, Steve Irwin, Jack Kevorkian, Jonas Salk, Gallelio, Louis Pasteur, Nelson Mandela, Pope John Paul II, and I can keep going here as well.

    I'll put these here as well.

    Titus 3:2-5
    To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

    Matthew 7:1
    Judge not lest you be judged

    Matthew 7:21-23
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Matthew 22:31-46
    “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you? The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    (note it says nothing about believing in just him, but only doing good. Thought I'd point that out in case you are reading more into it than is really there.)

    Romans 2:14-16
    Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    Continued in next post

    ReplyDelete
  56. Continued from previous post

    Acts 10:28
    And he said unto them, You know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man who is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God has showed me that I should not call *any* man common or unclean

    I Corinthians 10:31-33
    So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

    (I used more than one (English) version of the bible. King James Version and the New International Version mostly because I ended up at friends house when I finished double checking my wording and those are the only 2 she had.)

    Merry part and blessed be,
    Rachel

    ReplyDelete
  57. Rachel, I said your FIRST line didn't make any sense. Please read my comments with a just a bit of attention before you respond. Read your FIRST line again: Women are not persecuted because 1 in 5 are sexually accosted, and I know that as actually being a victim myself (and it wasn't in any relation to religious issues).

    I don't know what you're saying there. Women are NOT persecuted because 1 in five are sexually accosted? I'm not following your logic. One in five is a pretty staggering statistics- yet I would agree that women are not persecuted. Is that what you're saying? Because if you don't consider the millions of women who are sexually accosted as being persecuted, then I don't think you could argue that the pagan community is being persecuted- i.e., that they are a whole group of people in constant threat of DEATH by the general populace.

    Your second sentence: "As for taking legal action against things like that obviously you've never tried it." You were addressing me, not the aforementioned blogger. Hence my second statement: Just a word of caution: don't tell people what they obviously have or haven't done. You have no idea.

    Finally, your ridiculous statement that it's somehow disturbing that you have to define what "bad is" is ridiculous and demeaning. We in the Christian faith believe "trying to be good" is futile. That's where freedom in Christ comes from. Those who live in communnion with God strive to become more like him, but acknowledge their failure at being perfect. Because they have the Holy Spirit dwelling within, they are compelled to live a life like Jesus lived, and know even though they will come up short, they will still be embraced and loved by a forgiving God.

    I didn't ask you what was good and bad- I asked you where the line was. When the exact moment a person drifts from being "good" to being "bad." When their heart goes from being loving and just and kind to selfish and unjust and cruel.

    There's no line. Which is why there's a saviour.

    Rachel, you didn't respond to one of my comments correctly, which leads me to believe you're responding without taking time to consider what I'm saying. You're making absurd assumptions. (There are no baby rapists in my church asking for forgiveness, and there's plenty in the bible that speaks to those who "repent" with unpure motives.)

    If you think I'm somehow ignorant of inconsistencies in various translation of the bible, and that you've somehow enlightened me, you haven't. Still with me? (Condescension piled upon a complete lack of attention doesn't become you.)

    ReplyDelete

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your friendship! If you can't comment, try commenting as anonymous or you can email me at curly2880 at yahoo dot com.